Battery charging

[chas142]

The spec says "2000 cycles to 50% DOD" and that isn't a guarantee or an estimate - it says "max", meaning it will be less. A lot less, I suspect.
Don't get me wrong: it looks like a good battery, and at 31Kg for 100Ah it passes my "heavy" test, but even 1000 cycles is way beyond what you can expect.
I would certainly consider it if I was looking to buy a battery.

All I can say that my present SL75 Sonnenschein single Gel Leisure Battery 12V 75Ah has lasted 18 years, so I rate that as FANTASTIC, so that made me go Gel instead of AGM, Lithium are a lot more than I want to pay, price will make a lot of difference for a lot of people and I fully understand and respect that, but as I think you stated taking some batteries below a certain percentage will damage them. I compared the data at alpha between their Exide Gel that is the same as my old battery and yes it's good but it cant match the 110AH Leoch Powabloc Tubular Gel. I'm not sure what voltage the system cut out at on my Hymer but I can accurately monitor that with a £20 Bluetooth Battery Monitor. I will reduce the load by having 2 batteries instead of one, that will give me the 2.7 effect, so with solar and the fact that we drive around most days I doubt that we will drop the batteries to 50%, time will tell.

 

[chas142]

Wildebus so there you go, I said so. 42 people, now did I add the link as it looked very interesting, I expect 18 will tell me I didn't and 24 wont care.

 

[chas142]

Yes, of course. I have one here. But it is a tool for a specific job, and no use for the job under discussion.

Sorry, I disagree. It may not have been made to test liesure batteries, but it will test starter batteries of various types, when you connect it, it tells you the battery voltage, it will test charging and starting circuits, in effect with a liesure battery you only need to check the charging circuit voltage, but you should check that off load and on load. In post 11 Carrots talks about the problem with the batteries on his 2006 MH and Halfords saying that they are ok. So they have had some sort of test and passed that, I don't know if a battery tester has been made to specifically test liesure batteries, but I doubt that you can buy it for £20. I can only say in my 30 years of being an Auto Electrician I have never come across a meter as good as this, I've got all sorts of kit, mostly old but professional equipment. For £20 this beats all of my older equipment by far, so fast and easy to use. Please also note that I am not selling them.

So as you said here in your post number 13, para 4, check your charging first, you also state there about running batteries low will damage you batteries. So this is the tool for the job, as you have just stated the job requirements, it will test your charging circuit, off load and on load, it will give you the voltage at 1/6/24 hours. It will also give you a test as it sees it on a liesure battery, which like all the other test will be a guide that a novice or qualified operative can work with. It will even give you the ripple effect of the alternator diodes, now we are getting technical, is that star or delta, 3, 6, 9, phase, or an odd ball that I have had before. But on vehicle this would still test it.

Now if you have a new MH with a smart alternator and a B2B you would look at it in a different way, I suspect, but this meter would still be useful.

Sorry when you say you have one of those meters here, can you qualify that and explain how you would check the charging on a 2006 MH, I assume with no B2B and no smart alternator. I listed earlier how I would check it.

My old gel battery is liesure and start, as are many other types of liesure battery, or they are caravan - wheelchair movers, that's just a another complication to the discussion, and it puts it back to this is a fantastic meter for £20.

I have Asperger's Syndrome and find it difficult to communicate with some people especially people who have OCD, (I used to work with someone who had that and we always clashed). So I think if we meet up at a rally this year we should test batteries with our respective battery testers and do a comparison test, over a glass off wine of course, I brew a mean white apple and red elderberry wine. Chris356 might want to come along he has a couple of battery testers.

 

[chas142]

I used Alpha with our member discount. Physical size is an issue for me, so I got the largest that would fit and bought 2 x ordinary Alpha 130ah Explorer batteries about 18 months ago and they've been great. My original 10A charger unit had blown up at around the same time and I replaced it with a 25A Ctek multi-stage smart charger which has also been great. I'd love to go for better, more efficient batteries (lithium would be amazing!) but needs must and all that. I can't buy expensive batteries in one go but I can manage to replace cheaper ones more often, so that's the way I look at it.

I'm glad you changed that LED to Lithium, I was beginning to wonder if there was another type of battery out there that I didn't know about.

 

[Chris356]

Well worth £20 I have an old draper which is good for warming your hands on when it’s cold but I also had one of the below given to me by a guy who’s van I was working on he didn’t kno what it was https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ACT-Gold...292911794335?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

 

[trevskoda]

Can you add the link for that charger above. I purchased a 7 stage charger recently if for charging off vehicle, I'm very impressed with that, £33.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-2-4-8A-7-Stage-3-in-1-Smart-Waterproof-Battery-Charger-for-Car-Motorcycle-M2/142893743495?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

I need to look at the charger in the MH as that appears to run at 14.7v which is to high for long periods. It doesn't matter at the moment as I hardly ever connect to 240v, but I'm moving so I might soon.

Was on ebay,also numax of which i have and has a fan in it to keep cool,they come in 4ah 10ah and 20ah,the chinese ones are very cheep though i have yet to buy one as yet.

 

[chas142]

When you say 14.7V, is that generally or right now?
Asking as the colder the battery, the higher the voltage it usually likes for charging, and if you have a temperature sensor on the charger you will see a higher voltage in the winter then in summer. For example, my battery charger is set to do a 14.4V charge on my AGM bank, but a few hours ago when the charger came on it was putting out 14.82V as the batteries are close to freezing (it can be a bit disconcerting to see such high voltages until you remember the temperature!)

This is the charger in the Hymer Elektroblock, it's 18 years old, I don't know how smart it is yet, it was 14.7 a few weeks ago on EHO. It was 13.8 at the same time on Solar, I know not much sun so that can confuse the situation. My old battery doesn't like above 14.5 or 14.6 volts according to the data, another reason to change to Leoch Gel as they accept a charge quicker and accept a slightly higher charge, funnily enough 14.7. I will check out the Elektroblok data and see what I have in the box, but may well upgrade it to something like to the 20amp multi stage version listed in this forum. Not got the Bluetooth battery monitor yet so I cant tell you what is at the moment as it's outside in the cold and I'm inside in the warm.

I can tell you the temperature and humidity in here, in the MH, in the car and outside, lol. I've got that all sorted, the batteries and camper systems are work in progress.

 

[chas142]

Well worth £20 I have an old draper which is good for warming your hands on when it’s cold but I also had one of the below given to me by a guy who’s van I was working on he didn’t kno what it was https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ACT-Gold...292911794335?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

The draper and other similar type battery testers are all good to give you a guide, and suitable for most depending on what your testing, I have a Wilkson Variable rate hand warmer, I had 3 but sold 2, I kept the oldest and roughest looking one, it even has a cadmium cell tester in it. Bit like the old Crypton ADX charger tester that was in use I was an apprentice, many many years ago.

As for the one you were given, well you were lucky with that one, not read the data on it but it was free so a winner all the way.

 

[Minisorella]

I'm glad you changed that LED to Lithium, I was beginning to wonder if there was another type of battery out there that I didn't know about.

Blonde moment... or maybe a senior one!

 

[chas142]

It looks like this one: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LCD-Inte...ttery-Charger-Car-Van-Motorcycle/263928771354 one product review says:
"This is advertised as a 20A model. The max I have seen in any charging situation is 7A
Otherwise the item is as expected as has a terminal charging voltage of 14.6V, so can't be used as a float charger but good for overnight charging"

I think your right, 1) its to cheap, 2) look at the pictures some show 14.9v. 3) they don't tell you much about in the technical section other that intelligent, multi mode; I don't think its either. Avoid that one then.

 

[chas142]

Blonde moment... or maybe a senior one!

Or both,. I am still trying to remember the name of something I was thinking about an hour ago, and I'm not blonde. It will be all right tomorrow, I won't remember anything about it at all.

 

[chas142]

Quite right.
I actually thought I put that point in the post, but the thought in my head didn't make it to my fingers
I've updated the post accordingly. Thanks for pointing this omission out

I noticed that earlier, its funny as my fingers do things my brain tell it not to do, lol, so they get bit, ouch.

However, I was of the impression that most vehicle / alternator manufactures had realised that 13.8 wasn't enough to charge the battery fully and say for the last 35 years, or so they have increased output voltages, I used to change lots of Bosch truck regulators for Durite as they were 28.5v as apposed to 27.8v, which was no good on trucks with tail lifts and cab heaters. My 2001 camper and 2006 car are both running at about 14.4volts, I think that is fine for a traditional split charge system and a B2B isn't necessarily needed for the older type alternator systems if they are up to scratch. As the B2B can boost the voltage to the leisure battery initially over the alternator voltage that is a slight advantage, but if you are mobile it wont take that long for the standard system to catch up. With gel batteries like mine overvoltage will damage them and yes I know that they sense or owner set battery type. If you are just parked and want to charge your batteries quicker again a B2B would probably be of benefit, dependant on battery type and conditions, but its an expensive way of doing it, yes they are clever things if you really need it. The manufactures give them all this hype and I know on other forums where its been discussed that for the majority of people if the regulator was running at or changed to one that ran at 14.4 volts that was fine. I can see them being a much bigger advantage on things like narrow boats where there can be a lot of stop start for locks and revs are lower. The forum where I picked up the comments on the B2B was a sea marine forum, from what I recall their were several tests done to establish their findings.

I like the Victron Graph though, I think that bulk and absorption would be the same or very similar to a 14.4 regulator, the next section is I assume what they call the recondition stage, then the float stage, good if your driving an long long way, without stopping. I can only get about an hour away before I put the kettle on.

 

[chas142]

It should go to 14.7v or so for a few hours before dropping back to 13.7v That's part of being a 7-stage charger.

This isn't the 7 stage charger, it the Hymer Elektroblock. I don't know what's in the box, so it work in progress. The 7 stage drops the voltage to 14.4 for Gel, but for Wet it's higher yes about 14.7 and AGM I think its higher again, then yes it drops back for all after a while.

 

[chas142]

Was on ebay,also numax of which i have and has a fan in it to keep cool,they come in 4ah 10ah and 20ah,the chinese ones are very cheep though i have yet to buy one as yet.

The link that hairydog supplied pulled up one for about £13, but it didn't look that good, once you read the data. I shall look again, Numax ones should be good. The Chinese 7 stage, 8 amp one that I have doesn't have a fan and doesn't seem to get hot which surprised me a bit, it isn't even vented, will see how long it lasts.

 

[chas142]

I think 18 people on Motorhome think you are wrong, and 16 people on Wildcamping thing you are wrong - so yup, that makes ..... ..... yup, 42

You need a calculator that makes 34, I think you knew that, lol. and I've just gone back and I didn't add the link.

 

[wildebus]

You need a calculator that makes 34, I think you knew that, lol. and I've just gone back and I didn't add the link.

I think you may have missed your earlier "1+1=2.7" comment I was having a little fun with

 

[Carrotts]

Hi all. Well two l batts. 110ah. Diamond leisure. Digital meter in situ every thing off. 13.34. 13.27. Batts removed. In garage. Readings after 1 hour. The same. Batt condition shows green. - batt ok. Now waiting 6 h then 24 hour readings. Batts connected to a Moore dc12v. To ac 240v power 1800w.?? There is a autotrail Sargent system. Electric control system ec200. Alden solar watch sun power system. There is also a small black box by batts that says optimal 230v supply( it's hard to read so might of spelt it wrong). Also in eng compartment by veh batt there is a black box slightly larger then matchbox with a green light glowing. So answers in English. Thicko English preferred. Lol thank you. Guess who also decided to say yes to gas it. But when signed in saw the thread. SOLD. First time I've heard the wife swear. But thanks to all who offered to help on that subject.

 

[chas142]

I think you may have missed your earlier "1+1=2.7" comment I was having a little fun with

Did you mean your post 15, or post 40? I see the funny side of 40 but can't see anything in 15. It's could be my mental health issues,.

Did you see my post 42, me having some fun.

 

[chas142]

Hi all. Well two l batts. 110ah. Diamond leisure. Digital meter in situ every thing off. 13.34. 13.27. Batts removed. In garage. Readings after 1 hour. The same. Batt condition shows green. - batt ok. Now waiting 6 h then 24 hour readings. Batts connected to a Moore dc12v. To ac 240v power 1800w.?? There is a autotrail Sargent system. Electric control system ec200. Alden solar watch sun power system. There is also a small black box by batts that says optimal 230v supply( it's hard to read so might of spelt it wrong). Also in eng compartment by veh batt there is a black box slightly larger then matchbox with a green light glowing. So answers in English. Thicko English preferred. Lol thank you. Guess who also decided to say yes to gas it. But when signed in saw the thread. SOLD. First time I've heard the wife swear. But thanks to all who offered to help on that subject.

Bad luck on the Gasit, so you were buying used bottles? They all, (in theory), have a life of 10 - 15 years, or whatever the Makers list, then they are supposed to be replaced, exchanged is a better word, I don't know how much that cost, and I don't know if anyone has had theirs changed. One of mine must be 15 years old now, mmm, decisions, decisions, decisions.

 

[chas142]

To clarify as you

Hi all. Well two l batts. 110ah. Diamond leisure. Digital meter in situ every thing off. 13.34. 13.27. Batts removed. In garage. Readings after 1 hour. The same. Batt condition shows green. - batt ok. Now waiting 6 h then 24 hour readings. Batts connected to a Moore dc12v. To ac 240v power 1800w.?? There is a autotrail Sargent system. Electric control system ec200. Alden solar watch sun power system. There is also a small black box by batts that says optimal 230v supply( it's hard to read so might of spelt it wrong). Also in eng compartment by veh batt there is a black box slightly larger then matchbox with a green light glowing. So answers in English. Thicko English preferred. Lol thank you. Guess who also decided to say yes to gas it. But when signed in saw the thread. SOLD. First time I've heard the wife swear. But thanks to all who offered to help on that subject.

To clarify as you post confused me a bit.
1) Both batteries are off vehicle, did you check the charging voltage on vehicle engine running? Yes / No / what was the voltage, engine running say 2000rpm.

2) Have you charged the batteries in parallel off vehicle? Yes or No. If you took a voltmeter reading on charge what did that say?

3) Batt Condition shows green. Is that on a bench charger? Picture please.

4) Good you have started AM; So batteries I hope totally disconnected, not connected to anything, vehicle, charger or each other? If any connection to anything this test invalid and start again

5) Then readings at 1hr, 6hrs, 24hrs later, then 24hrs later than last one. Measure each battery and keep it listed as batt 1, and batt 2. What we are looking for here is mainly the difference between the two 24hr readings. The other are to try to give us a guide as to where we are starting from with the batteries. This test is only a guide and not a favourite of mine. But it's what we can check, with what you have.

I hope you can follow this ok, it the best way I can list it for you.
Think of it as 2 x 50 gall tanks of water, are they both full or have exactly the same amount of water in, where are the levels to start with and where re they after all the tests. We are trying to see if there is a leak in one of the tanks, or both of the tanks, or if the tanks has no leaks at all.