Battery charging

[Carrotts]

Hi. Did not test on veh. Removed to garage. Side by side. Not connected On battery's there is a hole you can look down and it can show different colours. Green white red They both show green have not connected charger yet. Was leaving them standing for 24 hours to see what readings. Readings. In garage. 13.34 and 13.27. After 1 hour. 13.17 and 13.14. Tomorrow am. Was going to connect to charger for charge. Then repeat readings for 24 hours. Thanks.

 

[wildebus]

Did you mean your post 15, or post 40? I see the funny side of 40 but can't see anything in 15. It's could be my mental health issues,.

Did you see my post 42, me having some fun.

Post #8.
obviously my quip lost in translation

 

[chas142]

Hi. Did not test on veh. Removed to garage. Side by side. Not connected On battery's there is a hole you can look down and it can show different colours. Green white red They both show green have not connected charger yet. Was leaving them standing for 24 hours to see what readings. Readings. In garage. 13.34 and 13.27. After 1 hour. 13.17 and 13.14. Tomorrow am. Was going to connect to charger for charge. Then repeat readings for 24 hours. Thanks.

Oh the battery indicator, I will see if I can find your type on ebay later and have a look, I don't class that as a monitor, ignore that at the moment it doesn't mean much, I have 5 batteries here all showing green and they are all knackered, according to the £20 meter and a old professional variable rate discharge tester, I only bought the £20 one as my old one is quite big and heavy.

So I assume we got the 13.+ volts because of the Solar. My solar controler gives conditions of charge by different coloured LED's, but it's not a true indication of what going on, only a guide.

So what you should do is to check them and note the readings again in a few hours, say 5pm, DONT PUT THEM ON CHARGE. Check the voltages at 5 pm tomorrow and 5pm on Monday. If you want to change the times that's fine but ideally every 24 hours, its the temperature difference that can in theory affect the batteries, if they were in doors and at one temperature it wouldn't matter so much. The reason I don't like this test is because you could check your green indicator and check the voltage in a months time and they could still show as ok but they have no capacity, so if a starting battery won't crank over your vehicle. The same loss of power happens if a liesure type battery, but you lights go off in a few hours instead of 2 - 3 days. Keep the updates coming and we will get there in the end.

 

[chas142]

Post #8.
obviously my quip lost in translation

Are we looking at the same post 8, post 8 is my reply to Yorkslass, or have you replied to it on Wild Camping and I wrote it on Motorhomer, I'm off to find another tablet or two and have a liedown.

 

[chas142]

Are we looking at the same post 8, post 8 is my reply to Yorkslass, or have you replied to it on Wild Camping and I wrote it on Motorhomer, I'm off to find another tablet or two and have a liedown.

I've got it, I got it!!!!! It just came to me as I was talking to the Co Pilot on the phone, sorry tis me Aspersers, apparently I fink different to all of you lot out there. Well so they say. Come back to add edit, very cleaver, hidden double meaning, I think.. Where's me tablets.

 

[Carrotts]

Hi all. Well well batt readings. Off veh on bench in garage not connected. 10 am yesterday. 13.34 And 13.27. 11am 13.17 and13.14. 5pm 13.02 and 13.05. Today 10am. 12.9. and 12.8. Well I read that as both batts are loosing there charge, So now what. Put them on charge 24hrs check again. Or accept they are loosing. If I put them back in veh. Connect up. Switch eng on take readings (((aaah that's what you said to do before disconnecting. ))) will this then show charging side is right. Cheers.

 

[wildebus]

It would also be worth while putting a load on the battery and see how fast they drop. A battery can seem fine on a basic reading but as soon as a load is applied it drops significantly.

 

[chas142]

Hi all. Well well batt readings. Off veh on bench in garage not connected. 10 am yesterday. 13.34 And 13.27. 11am 13.17 and13.14. 5pm 13.02 and 13.05. Today 10am. 12.9. and 12.8. Well I read that as both batts are loosing there charge, So now what. Put them on charge 24hrs check again. Or accept they are loosing. If I put them back in veh. Connect up. Switch eng on take readings (((aaah that's what you said to do before disconnecting. ))) will this then show charging side is right. Cheers.

Wrong!!! You didn't follow the precise instruction did you!! I knew you wouldn't
You will always get a slight loss of power through normal battery drain. Looking at the readings at this moment the batteries are still stabilising / leveling out. Leave them on the bench for another 24 hours, AT LEAST, test at 10am tomorrow, if you cant test at 10 am tomorrow and can only test after you come home from work test at 6 or 7 pm, if you're going to test in the evening on Monday do the same on Tuesday 24hrs after Mondays test. BUT ALSO TAKE A TEST AT 6 or 7 tonight if doing this option.

This is a long slow test and as I said earlier it is not my favourite, I might do this test myself, if I was really, really, really, really bored. Well I have and it didn't prove anything much. But I said most of this in the earlier posts.

You really need the £20 tester that I have, I was playing with that yesterday, I have 2 x starter batteries, well I have 5 all together. They are all knackered, in effect, as an individual unit. So they wont give out the rated 850amps cca and fail the test, but to me that doesn't mean they are past all possible use, (it used to when I was selling batteries to truck owners, when trucks left the depot a 5 in the morning or drove to Scotland or Russia, and if they have to call out a recovery it cost them £1-2 000.00). 2 of my batteries will give out 600amps cca, they were charged and left for a couple of months and then tested. Individually they will both start the MH on all but the coldest days. Now if I fit those two batteries together on the MH I go up to 1200amps cca, better than a new one at 850cca. I have already proved that they hold their charge over the 2 month sitting on the bench. The tester can be adjusted so I can test anything from, (I think 2000cca down to 40cca), it doesn't put a drain on the battery to flatten them, so I can start off at 850cca and work down in units of 5, but I just did it in units of 100 at a time, 3 x tests, say 3 mins total time on 2 batteries I've got all the information that I need. You should get one, in fact everyone should.

Don't do any other test at the moment and just follow the instructions, for the moment. You can do other tests later. Ahhh, Folkestone to far to meet.

 

[chas142]

It would also be worth while putting a load on the battery and see how fast they drop. A battery can seem fine on a basic reading but as soon as a load is applied it drops significantly.

Don't tell him this now, he will only go and do it NOW. and muck up all the readings, You can have him from Wednesday, and hairydog from Saturday. Where are my Valium!!!

 

[wildebus]

Don't tell him this now, he will only go and do it NOW. and muck up all the readings, You can have him from Wednesday, and hairydog from Saturday. Where are my Valium!!!

Well, as an extreme example, my old Starter battery I would keep on charge and it would read 13.2V or so for a couple of days. Turn of a key and it immediately dropped below 11V (and stayed below 11V) as the battery was so knackered. But on a basic "whack on a voltmeter" test it would have seemed ok.
Putting on a very brief but reasonably heavy load (say 20% of the battery capacity for a few seconds) will get rid of any underlying surface charge and will take so little actual energy (in terms of Ah) it can be ignored as if it never happened for testing purposes - but ... if the voltage doesn't recover to a fully charged level if the battery was believed to be fully charged, then the battery is knackered.
A longer controlled discharge can then be done to better check the battery, but if the high-load short-time test fails, no point in wasting time futher.


(but going back to the original Post, still not worth buying replacements yet even if they are bad, as the whole setup is not yet clear and new ones could go the same way)

 

[Carrotts]

Hi all Ok who knows me better then I do. Ok. You do. Yes I went out connected a 350w inverter to ONE batt. Left it with just inverter fan running. For 45 mins. Reading on that batt. 12.7. Then 45 mins 12.3 ,so where do you live maybe I can travel there. I'm retarded sorry meant retired so I'm free basically anytime.

 

[chas142]

Well, as an extreme example, my old Starter battery I would keep on charge and it would read 13.2V or so for a couple of days. Turn of a key and it immediately dropped below 11V (and stayed below 11V) as the battery was so knackered. But on a basic "whack on a voltmeter" test it would have seemed ok.
Putting on a very brief but reasonably heavy load (say 20% of the battery capacity for a few seconds) will get rid of any underlying surface charge and will take so little actual energy (in terms of Ah) it can be ignored as if it never happened for testing purposes - but ... if the voltage doesn't recover to a fully charged level if the battery was believed to be fully charged, then the battery is knackered.
A longer controlled discharge can then be done to better check the battery, but if the high-load short-time test fails, no point in wasting time futher.


(but going back to the original Post, still not worth buying replacements yet even if they are bad, as the whole setup is not yet clear and new ones could go the same way)

Ahh, you had a faulty cell on that battery.
Yes could have done the test you suggested, that would have worked as you said to knock of surface charge. Didn't think of that to be honest. I would have put my £20 tester on it and got an answer straight away, I could have found out what power I could get a pass on, (re last post), and then checked with variable load discharger. After using this £20 tester I would quite happily use it on liesure batteries, get an idea of where it was then give it a go on the discharge tester, as that's variable between 0-450amps, (in theory), I could make up a discharge test specification, or 2 for that.

 

[Carrotts]

Bit more. The last 90 mins. 12.7. Connect 350w inverter just inverter fan running after 45 mins. 12.3. Then further 35 mins. Then disconnected inverter , left to stand ten mins. Reading now 11.9or am I not giving it time enough. ,,,,,,,,,,,ooh for brains and knowledge ,,,

 

[chas142]

Hi all Ok who knows me better then I do. Ok. You do. Yes I went out connected a 350w inverter to ONE batt. Left it with just inverter fan running. For 45 mins. Reading on that batt. 12.7. Then 45 mins 12.3 ,so where do you live maybe I can travel there. I'm retarded sorry meant retired so I'm free basically anytime.

Or both, joke. We are all different and all have problems one way or another, but the World needs all of us. Not sure that's right as I think there are far to many Humans at the moment and we are killing the World, bit by bit. Alton Hampshire, it would be cheaper for you to by the £20 meter, that from China, more from UK but quicker. Get exactly the same as the one I got, the others won't be any good for what we are doing.

Ok so run your inverter fan for the same time on each battery. When you have done that I would connect the batteries together in parallel for an hour or 2. Take a reading while connected like this, then disconnect, take a reading at say 5pm, another Monday 5pm and Tuesday at 5pm. Then get back to us.

 

[Carrotts]

Hi. Last week. Thursday to tues. went down to landsend slow drive. Back. Bodmin moor . Dartmoor. New forest. Andover, home. That's when mhome leisure batts was showing low readings. Central gas heating fan kept cutting out. Now if I had known then that you lived in Alton. You would of had heard your door bell going. But serious. I would willingly drive to you for you to look at batts,, set up.,, Help,, advice,, if you are interested. As for getting the meter. I have trouble with my £8. Matlin meter. No retention. Cheers.

 

[chas142]

Bit more. The last 90 mins. 12.7. Connect 350w inverter just inverter fan running after 45 mins. 12.3. Then further 35 mins. Then disconnected inverter , left to stand ten mins. Reading now 11.9or am I not giving it time enough. ,,,,,,,,,,,ooh for brains and knowledge ,,,

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, your to impatient. Is 10 minutes 24hrs ? The only way we are going to get round this is to start from the beginning. Refit the batteries to the vehicle, take it for a run or run the engine for 20-30 mins, `or until the battery voltage gets above 14volts, see if it goes up to 14.4volts. Switch on headlights, heater, rev engine, is it still at 14volts? switch off heater, and headlights. This test the charging. Stop engine, switch on inside MH lights, say 30min, take reading, switch off lights. Disconnect batteries, take SEPERATE BATTERY readings, take same reading at 24hrs and 48hrs.

 

[chas142]

I am getting ready to move to Wolverhampton and away for a few days. When you say retention do you mean memory loss, apples? I am an Aspie. Try post 76 and lets see where we get. If we met up I can't do it at home to many complaints from neighbours, might be able to do it at some point and show you the Gas set up and refill, at the same time.

 

[wildebus]

Bit more. The last 90 mins. 12.7. Connect 350w inverter just inverter fan running after 45 mins. 12.3. Then further 35 mins. Then disconnected inverter , left to stand ten mins. Reading now 11.9or am I not giving it time enough. ,,,,,,,,,,,ooh for brains and knowledge ,,,

Hi Carrots,
TBH, it does sound like your batteries have had it. On my Setup I can pull 200Amps and as soon as the load is removed, the voltage recovers back to very close to the previous level within a minute.
A running 350W inverter with no AC load and just the fan will be a pretty light load and you shouldn't really see it drop anywhere close to those levels in the first place.
But I really think it is worth checking out the whole 12V charging setup.

If it is of any interest, I will be in the Wokingham area visting family in a few weeks time and be happy to have a look if you are not sorted by then.

 

[Carrotts]

Hi. Chas. thanks have refitted l batts to mhome. That's it today. mon will start re your post 76. Wildebus. Thanks will bear your offer in mind,,wife's friend lives at sandhurst so could combine her visit withyou me mhome. Will await tomorrow's results. My trouble is I read too much. Different threads. Then combine one thread with another End up putting air in the engine. Oil in the tyres. Then wonder why I have problems. Had accident 1972. Broke neck 3 places. Affects memory slightly. And had right hand amputated. Same time. Affects doing somethings. Not complaining. Just explaining why I now at 70 and finding things harder then when I was 30/40/50 So thank you one and all for help and patience.

 

[wildebus]

I know there are multiple threads of advice with different people which in a way doesn't make it easier, but on the other hand I think all the advice being provided is good (and that is not always the case on Forums!)